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Latency Manager (1.0.1.16) January 2017


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Originally Posted by dyn*:

 

Hello Zaeed,

 

I'm wondering if you could, in a future update, add a time whitelist, so for example it won't kick high pingers from let's say 2:00AM to 9:00AM.

 

We get many foreign players after midnight, so it would be very helpful.

 

Not sure if this is easy to do as I never done a plugin, just a request in case you can add it, if it's too hard, then forget it, it's ok.

yep, can do that.

Came here to ask the same thing. Good thing I read the thread first!

 

Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by Spanner_*:

 

Hi Zaeed,

 

Thanks very much for this plugin, should come in really handy.

 

Question; how high can a ping go? and thus how well does a one-off high ping error get corrected for using the averaging method?

 

Cheers,

Span

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Originally Posted by HexaCanon*:

 

Hi Zaeed,

 

Thanks very much for this plugin, should come in really handy.

 

Question; how high can a ping go? and thus how well does a one-off high ping error get corrected for using the averaging method?

 

Cheers,

Span

it is very accurate, it can even tell if you are downloading pron.
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Originally Posted by Zaeed*:

 

Hi Zaeed,

 

Thanks very much for this plugin, should come in really handy.

 

Question; how high can a ping go? and thus how well does a one-off high ping error get corrected for using the averaging method?

 

Cheers,

Span

it depends on how many samples you set..

 

average is the sum of the pings, divided by the count..

 

so more pings to sample means outliers have less effect..

 

10|13|21|10|33|444|32|12|23|14|16|

 

for example is

10+13+21+10+33+444+32+12+23+14+16 / 11 = 57

 

vs

 

10+13+21+10+33+444 / 6= 88

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Originally Posted by Spanner_*:

 

it depends on how many samples you set..

 

average is the sum of the pings, divided by the count..

 

so more pings to sample means outliers have less effect..

 

10|13|21|10|33|444|32|12|23|14|16|

 

for example is

10+13+21+10+33+444+32+12+23+14+16 / 11 = 57

 

vs

 

10+13+21+10+33+444 / 6= 88

Ta, but how high could an outlier get?
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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

Would you consider offering the moving median in addition to the moving average? According to Wikipedia, the median provides better protection from transitory spikes. There have to be an odd number of samples, though, and the more samples the better.

 

Moving median

 

From a statistical point of view, the moving average, when used to estimate the underlying trend in a time series, is susceptible to rare events such as rapid shocks or other anomalies. A more robust estimate of the trend is the simple moving median over n time points:

 

{equation: SMM = Median(Pm, Pm-1, ..., Pm-n+1)}

 

where the median is found by, for example, sorting the values inside the brackets and finding the value in the middle.

 

Statistically, the moving average is optimal for recovering the underlying trend of the time series when the fluctuations about the trend are normally distributed. However, the normal distribution does not place high probability on very large deviations from the trend which explains why such deviations will have a disproportionately large effect on the trend estimate. It can be shown that if the fluctuations are instead assumed to be Laplace distributed, then the moving median is statistically optimal.[11] For a given variance, the Laplace distribution places higher probability on rare events than does the normal, which explains why the moving median tolerates shocks better than the moving mean.

 

When the simple moving median above is central, the smoothing is identical to the median filter which has applications in, for example, image signal processing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_average
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Originally Posted by Zaeed*:

 

Median is often considered to be better at eliminating outliers, and it's how we do reporting at work.

 

However, in this situation, outliers are actually relevant, since if you have a player spiking every few minutes, the median might not catch that, but the average would..

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Originally Posted by EBassie*:

 

Just a question:

What is considered a too high ping for you guys?

 

At the moment I kick for a ping higher then 250. Taken from an average of 10 samples.

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Originally Posted by kcuestag*:

 

Just a question:

What is considered a too high ping for you guys?

 

At the moment I kick for a ping higher then 250. Taken from an average of 10 samples.

Personally I have set it to 200 when we have above 45 players.

 

Either ways with today's hardware used on servers, even players with 300 ping shouldn't lag the servers, but I do like to keep everyone on my server with decent ping, except after midnight as we get many foreign players that's why I set it to only enforce the ping kick after 45 players.

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Originally Posted by HexaCanon*:

 

Just a question:

What is considered a too high ping for you guys?

 

At the moment I kick for a ping higher then 250. Taken from an average of 10 samples.

i do the same 250-260.

 

but i tell my admins if people cry lag then kick anyone above 200 and then "-" if lag persist.

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Originally Posted by IAF-SDS*:

 

We should have discussion about Ping in general, if you guys don't mind.

 

I may be wrong here, but I believe there is major misunderstanding amongst players who automatically conclude that a higher ping lags a server.

 

Please correct me if Im wrong, but in articles about this very thing that I have read over the years, PING does not necessarily lag a server. A high ping normally only affects the player experiencing the high ping, and the other players do not suffer in lag from his high ping. A player with high ping may give the impression that the server is lagging, however, because if his ping is high enough, he will skip or otherwise interfere with the timing of bullet hits from players.

 

In other words, just because a player has a 250 or 300 ping, it doesn't mean the server will lag, but only give the perception that the high pinger is lagging. But with BF3, it actually handles things differently than I have seen with other games, and you don't notice a high pinger is lagging the way you would in another game.

 

The only time I've seen excessive ping appear to affect the stability of a server is when a lot of players in the server are experiencing huge fluctuations in ping, jumping from 200 to 700, then back to 300, then to 900, and so on. This is the only time I believe I have seen a server affected noticeably, when a lot of players are experiencing such fluctuations. Of course, usually when you see fluctuations of this magnitude, I have discovered it was a result of a DDOS attack or some other attack on the server.

 

 

 

So let's start talking about this and the misunderstandings about ping and lag that exist, because if I have it wrong and all of these articles I've read are wrong, I want to know.

 

Granted, I believe opinions on this differ so much because of a perpetuate myth, that I can actually find opinions in complete contradiction to each other about ping.

 

Who is a ping expert here who can enlighten us, or at least me, on whether or not a specific player's high ping actually lags a server and thus the rest of the players (I believe it does not), or if it's just a perpetuated misperception or myth that exists amongst some players?

 

 

 

If I were to limit ping, I would probably set mine to 400. In other games, 400 allowed for the occasional ping spikes experienced by players; however this plugin is awesome and actually takes the player's ping averages to determine a number, so it might make sense to go with 300 probably with this plugin. Of course, this is all dependent in our discussion about ping here.

 

Conversely, if we determine your typical higher pings from players who are located far away from the server (not DDOS attacks that cause fluctuations in pings) do not necessarily or typically lag a server (which I believe from what I've read they do not), it still might make sense to limit pings to a number for the sake of having a perception of a level playing field between players (although BF3 handles things in such a manner players can hardly ever notice if another player is lagging, which then begs the question if we should just limit pings to ease players who complain about ping, even though they may be wrong about ping lagging a server).

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Originally Posted by MorpheusX(AUT)*:

 

We should have discussion about Ping in general, if you guys don't mind.

 

I may be wrong here, but I believe there is major misunderstanding amongst players who automatically conclude that a higher ping lags a server.

 

Please correct me if Im wrong, but in articles about this very thing that I have read over the years, PING does not necessarily lag a server. A high ping normally only affects the player experiencing the high ping, and the other players do not suffer in lag from his high ping. A player with high ping may give the impression that the server is lagging, however, because if his ping is high enough, he will skip or otherwise interfere with the timing of bullet hits from players.

 

In other words, just because a player has a 250 or 300 ping, it doesn't mean the server will lag, but only give the perception that the high pinger is lagging. BF3 handles things differently than I have seen other games handle, and you don't notice a player is lagging the way you would in another game.

 

The only time I've seen excessive ping appear to affect the stability of a server is when a lot of players in the server are experiencing huge fluctuations in ping, jumping from 200 to 700, then back to 300, then to 900, and so on. This is the only time I believe I have seen a server affected noticeably, when a lot of players are experiencing such fluctuations. Of course, usually when you see fluctuations of this magnitude, I have discovered it was a result of a DDOS attack or some other attack on the server.

 

 

 

So let's start talking about this and the misunderstandings about ping and lag that exist, because if I have it wrong and all of these articles I've read are wrong, I want to know.

 

Granted, opinions on this differ so much, that I can actually find articles and opinions in complete contradiction to each other about ping.

 

Who is a ping expert here that can enlighten us, or at least me, on whether or not a player's high ping actually lags a server, or if it's just a perpetuated misperception that exists amongst some players?

 

 

If I were to limit ping, I would set mine to 400. In other games, 400 allowed for the occasional ping spikes experienced by players; however this plugin is awesome and actually takes the player's ping averages to determine a number, so it might make sense to go with 300 probably with this plugin. Of course, this is all dependent in our discussion about ping here.

100% agree to that. People tend to think that 1 player with a ping of 200 or higher will make all other players and the whole server lag, however this is not the case. As you've mentioned, the only real time excessive ping should affect all player's gameplay is when a large group of players are experiencing huge differences in ping (ping "jumping" around like you've mentioned), which would often be caused by the server itself lagging (where kicking the players wouldn't really help).

 

Setting the ping-limit to 400 seems fair to me, I would have chosen a similar value. Speaking from personal "experience", a ping of 200 or 250 can happen quite often and does not really affect my gameplay or the one from others significantly. Thus, I'd say a pinglimit of 200 might be too low.

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Originally Posted by kcuestag*:

 

Only reason I like to set it below 250 is because many players complain about lag when they see players above 200-250 ping.

 

I realize they don't lag our server, but I'd rather have people with ping below 200. I think 400 is way too much for a FPS, you're doing the kicked player a favor by kicking him so he can find another server with less ping LOL, I just don't see my self playing any server above 150 ping...

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Originally Posted by MorpheusX(AUT)*:

 

I think 400 is way too much for a FPS, you're doing the kicked player a favor by kicking him so he can find another server with less ping LOL, I just don't see my self playing any server above 150 ping...

I don't see myself playing with that high ping either, unfortunately my internet often decides it's "fu, you're getting high ping, deal with it or gtfo!", no matter if I choose a server 50 or 500 kilometers away. Since it's mostly still "okay" to play with a ping at 250, kicking at that rate will probably also exclude a certain percentage of players with a "not-so-decent" internet-connection, who will have a similar ping on many servers.
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Originally Posted by kcuestag*:

 

The biggest reason I set ping kick at 200 is because high pingers get an advantage in BF3 with the hit detection being in the client-side instead of server side as in BFBC2.

 

I play with a ping of 10-20 on my server, and I can easily kill people with ping below 100 as normal, but with high pingers above 200 it's a pain in the ass to kill them.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

However, in this situation, outliers are actually relevant, since if you have a player spiking every few minutes, the median might not catch that, but the average would..

That's right. I'm thinking about my own situation where I had a bad network connection at home a year ago. About two seconds out of every fifteen my ping would spike up into the 800 range, from the low 20s. I was already frustrated with my sucky rubber banding and lagging, adding a kick on top of something I couldn't control would have been pretty rage inducing.

 

Making it an option would let admins choose, but it's up to you, not a big deal one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by EBassie*:

 

I play with a ping of 10-20 on my server, and I can easily kill people with ping below 100 as normal, but with high pingers above 200 it's a pain in the ass to kill them.

^^ This. I play with a ping below 10 myself.

 

I don't think high pingers are lagging the server either.

But you notice problems with hit detection when the ping between players differs more than 200-250.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

The biggest reason I set ping kick at 200 is because high pingers get an advantage in BF3 with the hit detection being in the client-side instead of server side as in BFBC2.

This is the value of the plugin.

 

We've been victimized by these latency hacks and used to kick manually. The great thing about this plugin is that now that can be done automatically. Note that these "latency angle shooters" are consistently high ping. We don't want to kick the occasionally spiky.

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Originally Posted by kcuestag*:

 

This is the value of the plugin.

 

We've been victimized by these latency hacks and used to kick manually. The great thing about this plugin is that now that can be done automatically. Note that these "latency angle shooters" are consistently high ping. We don't want to kick the occasionally spiky.

Exactly, that's why I have it set to kick for average ping instead of instant kicking! :smile:
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Originally Posted by Mandizzy*:

 

Hi Zaeed,

 

Is this plug-in making use of new ping rcon command or pinging individual players from the layer? If using the layer, do you have any plans to update it to make use of new rcon command or do you know if something like this would be added to procon itself (ideally, this would be the best)?

 

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Sponge*:

 

Hey Zaeed Awesome to see a fellow Tasweagan being an admin on such an awesome project

 

Love the plugin but was thinking about another feature of kicking a high ping player once the round ends only, thus giving them their score for the round.

 

I have the add on setup to work once the server hits 18 users and have had a player complain as he was kicked near the end of the round

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