MULTIbalancer [1.1.6.0] 30-MAR-2015 + BFHL

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Originally Posted by ColColonCleaner*:

 

Any idea how this could have happened? BF3. Kharg conquest. Equal player counts but grossly imbalanced (700 vs 300 tickets left), i move 3 good players including myself to the losing team to help. Not only did the balancer respond by moving other good players to the winning team, it kept 2 more people on the winning team than the losing and placed new players joining on the winning team as well. _!_!?

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Originally Posted by propbndr*:

 

I find that it does not unstack teams when the teams get "super" unbalanced between rounds. The worst example was yesterday when a Large Conquest round started 2 v 10. I waited a full 2 minutes before I started manually moving players then, like ColColonCleaner, Multibalancer started moving them back. I ended up disabling it so I could balance the teams then turned it back on.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

Any idea how this could have happened? BF3. Kharg conquest. Equal player counts but grossly imbalanced (700 vs 300 tickets left), i move 3 good players including myself to the losing team to help. Not only did the balancer respond by moving other good players to the winning team, it kept 2 more people on the winning team than the losing and placed new players joining on the winning team as well. _!_!?

Your terms are a bit confusing. "Balancing" refers to numbers of players. "Stacking" refers good players vs bad players, and big differences in tickets or kills are a symptom.

 

Need way more detail. You didn't mention number of players, population level and phase.

 

Sounds like you had balanced teams, but tickets suggested that teams were stacked. And you expected some kind of unstacking to happen? What settings were you using? Did you have Unstacking enabled at all? There are a number of reasons why unstacking will stop: number of swaps exceeded, speed is Stop because late in the round, everyone is excluded by Exclusions, etc. Debug level 6 or higher will tell you exactly why MB decides not to unstack each player that dies.

 

What's the value of your per-mode Max Unstacking Ticket Difference? The default for Conquest Large is only 150 and your example was 400. Once that level is exceeded, the unbalancer shuts down, on the theory that no amount of player swapping will allow the losing team to catch up in time.

 

If your population was High, a difference of 2 players, like 30 vs 28, is considered balanced.

 

Are you using the latest MB, 1.1.0.0? I fixed a bug that caused new players to be assigned to the winning team. That said, your manually moving things might have temporarily confused MB, particularly if you had unstacking enabled.

 

In general, once you have tuned up your settings to the be optimal, the rest simply requires patience.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

I find that it does not unstack teams when the teams get "super" unbalanced between rounds. The worst example was yesterday when a Large Conquest round started 2 v 10. I waited a full 2 minutes before I started manually moving players then, like ColColonCleaner, Multibalancer started moving them back. I ended up disabling it so I could balance the teams then turned it back on.

By "super unbalanced", you mean numbers of players, right? Balancing has priority over unstacking. MB tries to make the teams have roughly equal numbers of players before it starts doing unstacking swaps.

 

If you meant "super stacked", like tickets 900 vs 200, that is controlled by the per-mode Max Unstacking Ticket Difference. The idea is that if the tickets are so far apart that no amount of swapping of players will help, the unstacker shuts down.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by ColColonCleaner*:

 

Your terms are a bit confusing. "Balancing" refers to numbers of players. "Stacking" refers good players vs bad players, and big differences in tickets or kills are a symptom.

 

Need way more detail. You didn't mention number of players, population level and phase.

 

Sounds like you had balanced teams, but tickets suggested that teams were stacked. And you expected some kind of unstacking to happen? What settings were you using? Did you have Unstacking enabled at all? There are a number of reasons why unstacking will stop: number of swaps exceeded, speed is Stop because late in the round, everyone is excluded by Exclusions, etc. Debug level 6 or higher will tell you exactly why MB decides not to unstack each player that dies.

 

What's the value of your per-mode Max Unstacking Ticket Difference? The default for Conquest Large is only 150 and your example was 400. Once that level is exceeded, the unbalancer shuts down, on the theory that no amount of player swapping will allow the losing team to catch up in time.

 

If your population was High, a difference of 2 players, like 30 vs 28, is considered balanced.

 

Are you using the latest MB, 1.1.0.0? I fixed a bug that caused new players to be assigned to the winning team. That said, your manually moving things might have temporarily confused MB, particularly if you had unstacking enabled.

 

In general, once you have tuned up your settings to the be optimal, the rest simply requires patience.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3...367/448773068/

Also, mysister_? was on the winning team and was switched last second for baserape.

 

Unstacking is not activated on that server which is what was confusing me. The server was about 15 players on each side, so it shouldn't have been high population. Enabling unstacking on that server caused far too many swaps and people started complaining so it was disabled, i did not know there was no stat balancing without it on...

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3...367/448773068/

Also, mysister_? was on the winning team and was switched last second for baserape.

 

Unstacking is not activated on that server which is what was confusing me. The server was about 15 players on each side, so it shouldn't have been high population. Enabling unstacking on that server caused far too many swaps and people started complaining so it was disabled, i did not know there was no stat balancing without it on...

Well, 15 vs 15 would be High pop on a 32 slot server, but I take it yours is 64?

 

Stats are taken into account during balancing as a form of exemption. If a weak player dies and the smaller team is the losing team and various other constraints (e.g., Fast balance speed) do not apply, the weak player will not be moved to the losing team. Similarly, a strong player will not be moved to the winning team for balance. Those exemptions contribute to balancing taking time and requiring patience.

 

But that doesn't mean that teams aren't stacked or that tickets are going to stay close. It's a bias during balancing, but if the situation is already stacked, balancing moves or refraining from making balancing moves often aren't enough to put things on a level playing field.

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Originally Posted by propbndr*:

 

By "super unbalanced", you mean numbers of players, right? Balancing has priority over unstacking. MB tries to make the teams have roughly equal numbers of players before it starts doing unstacking swaps.

 

If you meant "super stacked", like tickets 900 vs 200, that is controlled by the per-mode Max Unstacking Ticket Difference. The idea is that if the tickets are so far apart that no amount of swapping of players will help, the unstacker shuts down.

Sorry, stacked was a poor choice of word. I mean balance. The example I used still applies though.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

Sorry, stacked was a poor choice of word. I mean balance. The example I used still applies though.

Okay, if you had 2 v 10 players at the beginning a round, did you try the new Fast Balance mode? Are you running 1.1.0.0? Fast Balance basically does what you did manually, it force moves (admin kills then moves) players until teams are balanced. It doesn't wait for players to die. It ignores all exclusions except for On Whitelist and minutes since last move.

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Originally Posted by propbndr*:

 

Yes, I have ver 1.1.0 and no I did not try the fast balance mode. I will give it a try. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ColColonCleaner*:

 

Just had this happen on our lockers server. Could i get some insight into how it can be avoided?

 

0:00 - 1:00

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch_v=h5tz3s-qOv8

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Originally Posted by HexaCanon*:

 

unstack based on average team kdr or spm, any chance ?

 

Edit :

 

also, i dont want to plague the status command but something like this

Code:

last unstack was xx Seconds ago, next unstack is in xx Seconds.
or 
last unstack was xx Seconds ago, unstacking disabled for now // this is when unstacking is not exceeding the specified ticket ratio difference
or
no unstacking happened this round so far, next unstack is in xx Seconds.
and so on..

will be nice for my needs to balance teams xD

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

Just had this happen on our lockers server. Could i get some insight into how it can be avoided?

 

0:00 - 1:00

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch_v=h5tz3s-qOv8

Logs are way more useful than a video to understand what is going on. On the surface it looks like two guys were moved from the smallest team to the biggest team inexplicably, but that could be correct, depending on your settings. I'd have to see the full set of settings in effect at that time, but again, the log at Debug Level 6 or higher would tell me exactly what decisions MB made to move those two players without needing the settings.

 

BTW, I think your Scramble Delay might be too long. At the very beginning of the video, what was going on in the Scoreboard? It looked like scrambling moves, but that shouldn't ever happen while any player is spawned. That's all supposed to happen before the game server does team swapping, which always happens before the first spawn. It might not be scrambling moves, though. Hard to tell from a video ... log, log, log, blah, blah.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

unstack based on average team kdr or spm, any chance ?

I said yes the first time you asked. I added it to the wish list.

 

Edit :

 

also, i dont want to plague the status command but something like this

Code:

last unstack was xx Seconds ago, next unstack is in xx Seconds.
or 
last unstack was xx Seconds ago, unstacking disabled for now // this is when unstacking is not exceeding the specified ticket ratio difference
or
no unstacking happened this round so far, next unstack is in xx Seconds.
and so on..

will be nice for my needs to balance teams xD

"Next" is not possible, since the balancer makes decisions based on the current soldier that died. It can't predict the future.

 

The only time unstacking is disabled is when the max swaps is exceeded. Every solder death is a potential unstack swap. That's what I mean when people want an "autobalance will begin in X seconds" message and I say, the autobalancer is always on, so there's no time to post a message like that.

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Originally Posted by OddJob001*:

 

Per your request in the other thread:

 

The Autobalancer is working wonders after a week or two of tweaks. Nearly 75%+ of our games are within 100 tix.

 

However, I am hearing over and over again, that it is moving people out of squads that have the same clan tags. Is there a way to verify this and debug/troubleshoot it? If so, what debug level would tell me what its doing. I have it set to debug 3 and occasionally I see messages about being not able to update clan tags, something something darkside.

 

Thanks.

Per your answer, I will change to debug 7, and work on getting the logs. Thanks

 

Edit: Your reply:

 

Post this in the MULTIbalancer thread and I can help you there. The short answer is, I need Debug Level 7 logs (plugin.log) that show the moves happening, so I can understand why.

 

For the record, MB 1.1.0.0 now has the clan tag dispersal feature swatted about in this thread.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

I have it set to debug 3 and occasionally I see messages about being not able to update clan tags, something something

That's the most likely explanation, even without seeing Debug Level 7 logs. MB can't make exemptions for same clan tags if the Battlelog fetches for clan tags fail. If you are getting a lot of clan tag fetch failures, you might have a general networking congestion problem. Do you run a layer or direct connect Procon?

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Originally Posted by kszym2002*:

 

Everyone kicked out of the game server,When MULTIbalancer is open.

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Originally Posted by TH3REDSP1R1T*:

 

PapaCharlie9 Here's what i found for the MULTIbalancer logs

 

PluginManager.MoveLegacyPlugins(): Move: "MULTIbalancer.cs"; Keeping /Plugins/BFBC2/ version. Warning: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. (I did this as removing MULTIbalancer.cs from BFBC2 folder)

 

Compiling MULTIbalancer.cs... Errors or Warnings

MULTIbalancer.cs (Line: 4341, C: 22) CS0115: 'PRoConEvents.MULTIbalancer.OnTeamFactionOverride( int, int)': no suitable method found to override

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Originally Posted by Tomgun*:

 

If by asking this im throwing a spanner in the works of the programming I apologize, but is it possible to have an idle balancer with a clan tag/name white list.

 

What I mean by this is if our members idle in the server to help it get going, could those that idle be timed and say right no movement and this clantag/name is in the list, then these are classed as idle.. balance evenly

 

if this already happens then I apologize again, I do have the clan tag disperse on but as far as I can tell it doesn't know if that player is idle or not. It has come about that 3 were idle on one side and the other side our clans members wernt, so 1 side was 3 people down so to speak. Could it balance them and say in the server "blar blar is now balanced for being idle" or "players that are idle are now balanced".

 

Or yeah it could just balance the idle players and exclude them from any lists and put them in a new list "idles". Once they move bang they are back in the other lists if they are in those lits or just classed as normal players (might be an easier option)

 

Just dont want any conflicts with other plugins and then it gets all swoppy

 

love you all

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Originally Posted by HexaCanon*:

 

having issue with the plugin keeping same clan tag in the same team, gonna enable the logs and see how it goes tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

Everyone kicked out of the game server,When MULTIbalancer is open.

That's a pretty nifty trick, given that MULTIbalancer doesn't have the kick command anywhere in its code. Can you do it again?

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

PapaCharlie9 Here's what i found for the MULTIbalancer logs

 

PluginManager.MoveLegacyPlugins(): Move: "MULTIbalancer.cs"; Keeping /Plugins/BFBC2/ version. Warning: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. (I did this as removing MULTIbalancer.cs from BFBC2 folder)

 

Compiling MULTIbalancer.cs... Errors or Warnings

MULTIbalancer.cs (Line: 4341, C: 22) CS0115: 'PRoConEvents.MULTIbalancer.OnTeamFactionOverride( int, int)': no suitable method found to override

Wow!

 

Why was MULTIbalancer.cs in the BFBC2 folder? The plugin only supports BF3 and BF4.

 

Why is the old-style plugin support option enabled? Do you need that for some other plugin? That might be causing the problem. Go to Procon Tools => Options ... => Advanced tab, and uncheck Use old style to load plugins at startup.

 

Are you sure you are using Procon 1.4.1.5 or later? That second error would only happen for an earlier version of Procon.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

If by asking this im throwing a spanner in the works of the programming I apologize, but is it possible to have an idle balancer with a clan tag/name white list.

 

What I mean by this is if our members idle in the server to help it get going, could those that idle be timed and say right no movement and this clantag/name is in the list, then these are classed as idle.. balance evenly

 

if this already happens then I apologize again, I do have the clan tag disperse on but as far as I can tell it doesn't know if that player is idle or not. It has come about that 3 were idle on one side and the other side our clans members wernt, so 1 side was 3 people down so to speak. Could it balance them and say in the server "blar blar is now balanced for being idle" or "players that are idle are now balanced".

 

Or yeah it could just balance the idle players and exclude them from any lists and put them in a new list "idles". Once they move bang they are back in the other lists if they are in those lits or just classed as normal players (might be an easier option)

 

Just dont want any conflicts with other plugins and then it gets all swoppy

 

love you all

That would have to be added as a new feature of MB.

 

In the mean time, I think the BalanceSeeders plugin would be compatible with MB. You could try running both at the same time.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

having issue with the plugin keeping same clan tag in the same team, gonna enable the logs and see how it goes tomorrow.

For between-round scrambles or in-round balancing/unstacking moves? It's a known issue that scrambling doesn't always respect keeping clan tags together.

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Originally Posted by TH3REDSP1R1T*:

 

PapaCharlie9, It was already unchecked and on procon version 1.4.1.5 do you mean Procon client or layer? I updated layer, clients fine, that could've been my issue. But right now my layer has gone haywire and i couldn't connect to it after BF4 had this R2 or R3 patch, restarted multiple times.

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Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

PapaCharlie9, It was already unchecked and on procon version 1.4.1.5 do you mean Procon client or layer? I updated layer, clients fine, that could've been my issue. But right now my layer has gone haywire and i couldn't connect to it after BF4 had this R2 or R3 patch, restarted multiple times.

Clients AND layers should be updated to 1.4.1.5.

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Originally Posted by TH3REDSP1R1T*:

 

Ok so far right now, My layer is being retarded. Im using gameservers as a host, any better hosts with good uptime? Idk whats wrong with mine. I did a bf4 server patch i got recently, now layer wont work... idk how to revert back.

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Originally Posted by Mandizzy*:

 

PC9, I think whitelisting of vip players is partially broken. It relies on case sensitive match for player names with new version. Used to work fine with either uppercase or lowercase player names.

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Originally Posted by ColColonCleaner*:

 

PC9, I think whitelisting of vip players is partially broken. It relies on case sensitive match for player names with new version. Used to work fine with either uppercase or lowercase player names.

Player names are case sensitive man.

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Originally Posted by DWG-Jambi*:

 

Hello PapaCharlie9 or anyone else that can help me.

I have pretty much set our end of round scramble to scramble everyone. I like this cause the more people moving means closer games.

We have a few clans that play on our server. Not very large clans. What is the best way to exclude these few small clans from splitting up during the scramble? I had keep clan tags on same team set to true but our clan is so big that when it would scramble it just put to many of us together and would scare people away. So yeah what is the best way to just exclude a few small clans from end of round scramble.

Thanks for all your help.

[ImportBot]

Originally Posted by PapaCharlie9*:

 

PC9, I think whitelisting of vip players is partially broken. It relies on case sensitive match for player names with new version. Used to work fine with either uppercase or lowercase player names.

The check was always intended to be case sensitive. I looked at the code and that hasn't changed since June of 2013.